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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 16, 2012 10:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: US Gun Law Reform - a conversation -

I hope that cherry picking anecdotes from here and there helps you sleep at night, but the fact is that sates with stricter gun control laws have fewer deaths from gun related violence. Period.

Think of it this way. If laws were strict enough to keep that crazy mofo from getting a gun in the first place, then there's no shooting and no need for your vigilante here to spring into action.

This post was modified by snow_and_rain on 2012-12-17 06:39:57

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Poster: oolu2 Date: Dec 17, 2012 9:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: US Gun Law Reform - a conversation -

you are a violent nation

walt disney cartoons are violent-i forbad them
your earliest movies have a gun and/or fight resolution
your movies since the silent films are violent
your video games are violent
you music vids re violent
and your use of f...ing indicates your violent too

what will you yanks do next arm your 5 yr olds?
a canadian sorting her conflicts out in peace

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Dec 17, 2012 7:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: US Gun Law Reform - a conversation -

Bullshit snow.

Take a look at homicide statistics for Chicago last summer, Camden or DC and get back to me about strict gun laws having any effectiveness other than making it harder for responsible owners to protect themselves.

What helps me sleep at night is my training and proficiency with what I hope to never have to use again in my life but will use in a heartbeat to protect my family.

Do you understand my perspective now? Your idea of strict, effective gun control is to ban them and take them out of the hands of responsible owners while keeping them in the hands of the fucking predators in society. That is unacceptable to me.

I'm done.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Dec 17, 2012 7:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: US Gun Law Reform - a conversation -

Yes we understand your perspective, a selfish one from my POV. You are exceptionally trained, intelligent and sane - I can't confirm that for the other 40 million gun owners who own over 200 million guns. No one is suggesting taking them away from "responsible" owners - just putting safeguards in place to keep them away from irresponsible ones. This is a situation that demands the needs of the many supersede the needs of the few.

I'm glad you can sleep at night - recurring mass slaughter seems to be a status quo you can live with.

If we can register every vehicle, and educate, test and license every driver in the country, does it not make sense to do the same for guns and their owners?

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Poster: littonracker Date: Dec 17, 2012 4:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: US Gun Law Reform - a conversation -

It's against the law to drive drunk, yet tens of thousands of citizens are killed annually by drunk drivers, including a few thousand children. The governments ability to stop drugs, close the border and on and on is a record of failure and incompetence. There were DOT screeners at the 4 airports used by the 9/11 psychos and not ONE of them was discovered. Typical reaction: one nut had a bomb in his shoe, now every boarding passenger has to take off their shoes. The lesson is that everything can't be controlled in a society with 300+ million legal citizens (and uncounted millions of illegal ones)and freedom. However, we haven't tried what Hitler and Stalin did in their countries yet. Maybe that'll work.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 17, 2012 8:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: US Gun Law Reform - a conversation -

More cherry picking. Here's a nationwide study. Open your eyes Mando. I live in DC, by the way. Not the burbs, the city.

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-laws-matter-2012-understanding-the-link-between-weak-laws-and-gun-violence/

By the way, the Supremes famously struck down DC's efforts to tighten gun laws. In other words, local efforts in my hometown to institute sane gun safety law,s were defeated by people who live behind electric fences in the burbs.

This post was modified by snow_and_rain on 2012-12-17 16:08:18

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Dec 17, 2012 6:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: US Gun Law Reform - a conversation -

Here's more for your cherry picking.

Given that my home in the US is also DC, I checked out the crime stats. DC murders last year were 132; in the US, over 14,748.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/dc/washington/crime/ (Unfortunately you can't check crime rates by neighborhood without subscribing, but maybe there are other sites.)

So, wow, almost 15,000. Given that I do think int'l comparison is relevant -- not definitive, but relevant -- I looked up the UK. Crime is at a 30 year low; 550 homicides last year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900384

OK, gotta adjust for population. That's just England plus Wales (roughly 56 million), so multiply by 6. We get 3300 (populated adjusted) vs 14-15,000. Then all that rape, robbery and assault in the US.

Compare that to this part from the UK, which is pretty interesting:

>There were 30,999 offences involving a knife or sharp instrument, a 5% decrease compared with 2010-11
Provisional data shows 5,911 firearm offences were recorded - 16% down - of which 39 resulted in a death

So yes, they get gun crime. But people are not mainly dying. And yes, they get crimes of anger with other weapons. But again, people are not mainly dying.

Anyway, speaking to the converted here, but I thought you might find those cherries interesting.

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Poster: Harpua22 Date: Dec 17, 2012 6:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: US Gun Law Reform - a conversation -

I am with you 100 percent. Don't really see where there's an argument here. There is no legitimate reason for a civilian to own assault weapons. If anyone on this thread can come up with a legitimate reason, feel free to share.